不是中国也不是社会主义，美国害怕的是别的东西

94,059次观看首播开始于 2022年1月30日
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvLxuJYKXaA

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解说词

[Music]
look at it this way there's an understanding in among those who manage the capitalist system there's an understanding that one of the ways that inequality continues to be reproduced over generations
is that there's a large belt of countries in africa asia latin america; it just
seems to be these places a large belt of countries which had formerly been
colonized, where the workers in these countries are being paid subhuman wages
see and this subhuman wage is justified on cultural grounds; so we are told for instance in zambia standard of living is low. 

if the standard of living is low then
you can pay people very little
to pull the copper out of the ground now
you and i cannot be holding this
conversation right now
without that zambian miner
that zambian miner went into the ground
brought out that copper that copper was
then processed into wires into small
components for our computers
it's what connects you to me we are
connected through copper
and yet the idea is that copper miner
whose children sixty percent of whose
children can't read in the copper belt
region of zambia that copper miner
doesn't need to be paid
a good salary or a good wage
because their their
standard of living is lower they don't
need so much money in zambia
they just eat a little bit of you know
tap
some flour an onion here and there you
know when they come up
give them something to entertain
themselves maybe they get a cheap
smartphone
some kind of
knockoff smartphone
they watch a little video they go to
sleep in their house they don't need air
conditioning
you know they're not used to all this
that's the attitude why can't the
zambian miner be paid more so their
children go to school
so they have an existence where they
have proper cultural life you have to
keep their wages artificially suppressed
by making a racist
argument about culture this is not just
in zambia it's there in india
it's there in malaysia
it's there across this belt of countries
miners who go into the earth
you know workers who do things in the
fields peasants who grow crops and so on
they say oh you can keep the wages down
this is an old colonial idea
that these people don't need the modern
world
they can be kept in a low form
of human civilization so horribly
offensive idea
but in a way the whole structure of
capitalism
relies on these workers being paid these
sub power wages that's a colonial
structure that gets reproduced
generation after generation even though
these are nominally free countries
zambia is a free country it's not a
colony
but its economy is kept in a colonial
structure ghanaian prime minister
president kwame nkrumah called
neocolonialism
it's neocolonial the structure so that's
the colonial structure you know zambia
will go and borrow money from the
international monetary fund
money apartheid
international monetary fund will say
we'll lend you money okay
but
you have to cut your health care system
you have to cut subsidies to education
that's why 60 of the children in the
copper belt can't read
because the government doesn't have the
resources to have educational
institutions the imf has told them cut
education cut health care cut pensions
cut all this stuff privatize everything
see that reproduces the colonial
structure
how is the zambian miner then
going to lift their life experiences how
are they going to do that
they are not getting paid enough
government is being told cut health care
cut you know education all this how are
they going to do this they can't so
generation after generation the colonial
structure is reproduced
this comes from a colonial mindset as
well that's what's important there's
also a mindset the mindset that says
well look you know
what do they know of civilization that
racist idea is there
they don't need to be paid much
so that structure and
the ideology
go hand in hand in a way you know and
you see what's interesting
is that like a country like china
um
doesn't care about this
it has produced its own path
now
some people can argue this is going back
a long way you know but that's not true
this is not about some old chinese
attitude towards the west or towards
it's not true
your emperor
told the british in the 19th century we
don't need anything from you
we've got everything here and then the
british forced opium on china
and china was humiliated
and the chinese people became addicted
to opium
wages were kept suppressed and down you
know western companies were doing to
china
what is continuing to be done in africa
today it's not that china has a
different history
it's the chinese revolution in 1949
that said no we are not going to accept
new colonialism we're not going to
accept it
we're going to build our own
agriculture we're going to lift the
standards of our own people we're going
to give them
a medical education all this stuff
so i don't agree with people who make
the argument
that china's advance
is because of chinese culture that's
nonsense to me where was chinese culture
in the 19th century when you were
defeated in the opium war
where was chinese culture when hong kong
was taken
where was chinese culture
when the foreign
you know
entities came and demanded extra
territorial protections in shanghai you
know
where was it it wasn't it's really after
the chinese revolution of 1949
that a new spirit is born in china when
mao says you know we stand up now
that's powerful look countries around
the world want to stand up that's what
i'm trying to say what are you standing
up against
when mao says we are standing up
what does people may should ask what are
you standing up against
you're standing up against colonialism
you're seeing no more opium war
you're seeing no more humiliation you
see that's the important aspect that mao
is not just talking about standing up
abstractly he's talking about standing
up concretely
standing up against colonialism
[Music]
that's a very important question um
if i may i'll say it's afraid of neither
it's afraid of something else
so um the united states continues to
have the world's largest military let's
be clear about that
i know china has the military capacity
to defend its borders but the united
states is a very dangerous military
force it can wipe out countries now it
can't tell people what to do
they destroyed libya destroyed iraq
you know to some extent destroyed
afghanistan
destroy countries but you can't tell
them what to do people are not going to
accept it but you can still
create
terrible physical damage you know uh
china can have great damage inflicted on
it if the us is crazy enough to go to
war you know why is the united states so
bothered by china that's the question
today right
nothing to do specifically with china
nothing to do specifically with
socialism you specifically
the immediate thing that they are
bothered by is that the chinese
government and chinese people made a bet
about
let's say now 40 some years ago
it's around your period of the reform in
1978 chinese people made a bet
what the chinese people bet was the
chinese people said okay look at this
we've been able to improve the general
condition of our people we've improved
the nutrition level by 1978 nutrition
levels went up from 1949. that was not
that hard because in 1949 because of the
terrible war nutrition levels were
appalling you know
agriculture had been destroyed in
central china and so on but they still
lifted nutrition levels lifted health
levels lifted education levels lifted in
fact what's very important is life
expectancy people in china were living
longer and so on okay now here's the bet
look
they said
um
it's not enough in the modern world to
feed people it's not enough to have
medical care and so on we also need the
best of science and technology
because a lot of advances are coming not
through necessarily you know
redistributing the surplus that we have
you know
taking the surplus and saying let's put
more into medical let's put more into
health no it's not just socialism is not
merely redistributing the surplus we
have to advance our science and
technology why do i keep saying science
and technology
you can't just improve your technology
technology in a sense is yesterday's
science
science is tomorrow's technology so you
have to improve both science and
technology side by side so they said
let's do that
and from 1978 the chinese government
made some clever moves for instance
when they said to the french
solar energy companies you can come and
you can create factories in shenzhen and
other places that's okay but you have to
tell us what is the science behind solar
energy we want to learn this
and the friends said because they were
so excited by being given access to high
quality chinese labor you see labor is
high quality because better fed
it's educated right it's not just for
cheap wages it's a wrong approach if you
want cheap wages there are many
countries to go to
what these companies wanted access to
was in a sense the advantages of
socialism
better fed workers if the workers are
better fed they can work with more
concentration they're not drifting off
in hunger you know
and so on so the companies were so
excited by access to better you know
socialist workers that they said okay
fine you can here's the science
and then chinese science poured over
those advances learned everything super
fast and then began to innovate and
develop their own scientific industry
inside the country
by about 10 years ago
in five or six key areas
chinese science was ahead of western
science
chinese science had gone ahead in areas
of telecommunications
in areas of robotics in areas of green
technology and so on and so forth you
know high-speed rail for instance a lot
of different areas
these advances particularly in
telecommunications
are a direct threat
to western telecommunications companies
see these companies rely on their
monopoly
to make profits
and because they are such important
parts
of western capitalist countries they are
so important if tomorrow
the chinese company like huawei zte and
so on wipe out nokia
if they wipe out the american tech
companies these economies will go into
serious crisis
so this is actually this whole cold war
business
is actually a fight
over whether china should be allowed to
go ahead of the west in science and
technology that's really in my opinion
that's the core of the fight and the
reason the evidence i have for this
is when trump accelerated the pressure
on china when trump accelerated this see
trump was a right-wing republican
you'd think that all the liberals
would be opposed to the cold war the
democratic party and so on you'd think
they would say hey listen trump what are
you doing this is crazy no
even the ceos
of the leading silicon valley firms
the ceo of apple for instance he himself
is a liberal personally
he they gave money to the democratic
party he went to see trump
during the high point of the pressure
campaign on china
and he all he said was listen go ahead
with your pressure campaign because we
want to we want your help to defeat
huawei
you go ahead with the pressure campaign
just make sure that
samsung in south korea
isn't getting too much of an advantage
from this pressure campaign over apple
while you're at destroying
huawei and zte also destroy samsung
because apple and others they must
benefit you see
apple didn't go and see mr trump and say
what are you doing our production lines
are in china
we with foxconn we produce all our
phones in china
stop this no he said you accelerate the
campaign
more important
to destroy huawei and zte and to take a
short-term hit
on production facilities
then the long-term issue of having their
advantages destroyed
so actually in my opinion
the united states obsession with china
is an obsession to prevent china from
fully standing up
in that sense this is really a colonial
situation because what they're saying to
china is
we don't mind it if you are the producer
of the world if your workers produce
everything we don't mind that
but we don't want you to produce things
for yourself
we don't want your companies
to have an advantage over our companies
this is the colonial mindset
[Music]
you know the one of the great tragedies
of the socialist project has been that
all socialist experiments have taken
place in poor countries
none of the advanced capitalist
countries advance to socialism none of
them
not germany not the united states not
the uk none of them
the where was where was the socialist
experiments the tsarist empire
relatively poor backward place you know
china which as you know because of the
long war 1937 to 1949
war against the japanese civil war and
so on was devastated
socialism comes in cuba very poor
country you know colonial context and so
on um you can't think of any socialist
experiment that took place in a rich
country the closest thing we have is
east germany
but east germany was destroyed by world
war ii it wasn't the east germany of the
past and so on
because of that we had to experiment you
know marx had had theorized
that under capitalism you build the
productive forces
and then you just merely need to have a
revolution and you socialize the means
of production what if there are no means
of production what if the productive
forces are weak what if you don't have
factories but you have poor peasants and
so on how are you going to build
socialism there
we had the disaster of cambodia for
instance disaster where in cambodia what
happened was they basically tried to
socialize poverty
everybody will be equally poor that's
not socialism you see my impression of
socialism is that we want to abolish
poverty we don't want to generalize
poverty we want to ebola how do you do
that you have to experiment you have to
build the productive forces you have to
maintain levels of equality a socialist
culture and so on for that you have to
do all kinds of interesting things you
know you have to at some points open up
to various forms of private enterprise
then you have to reign in private
enterprise don't allow the people who
run these companies to think they are
you know captains of industry nothing
you are just doing another job my friend
you're building a company that's just
another job
you know between you and the janitor is
a difference of skills a difference of
experience and so on you know but don't
think you're a better person than that
person that's a very bad attitude you
know when when somebody says oh i'm a
captain of industry i built a big
company i'm better than a school teacher
that's not true my friend you are just
two human beings doing two different
tasks in the world admittedly sometimes
the captain of industries tasks are more
complicated i understand that i'm not a
fool i understand that you do more
complicated things you a lot of pressure
in your life and so on but you're not a
better person than a school teacher you
both play an important role in society
so we have to experiment with new ways
of because we are not building socialism
in rich countries we have to experiment
in new ways
it's an illusion to believe for instance
or china is a rich country you know
china is a country rooted in the
experiences of the global south you know
it faced the pressures of imperialism
terrible pressures in the 19th century
and you've just eradicated absolute
poverty which is a huge feat but let's
be frank there are there were sections
of china till you know last year that
lived in terrible the grip of poverty
you know it's hard to
get out of it so you have to experiment
let's try this let's try that
that's the attitude of socialism you
know socialism is about using pragmatic
uh mechanisms to advance the cause of
humanity it's not about being rigid you
know let's keep doing the same thing
whether it's working or not no we have
to be experimental we have to be supple
i like the word supple
supple you know you have to like a good
yoga you know you have to your body has
to not be all in the grip you know like
that you have to be able to move in a
way that's gentle and if something is
not working try the other try the
opposite sometimes you know be
open-minded but
make sure that you're along the
path of advancing the cause of your
people and and of nature you know don't
destroy nature i learned that from karl
marx mark said one of the terrible
things about capitalism was the tendency
to use nature
as a free resource but nature is not
free
nature is very expensive it is uh it is
the great gift that the planet has given
us we can't take advantage of it towards
destroying it you know i i'm a great
believer in having a balanced attitude
towards nature you know i i don't want
to live in a planet without trees and
plants and birds and you know i like
nature a lot
you know
i mean it's not a question of like and
aesthetics it's a question we rely on
nature nature feeds us you know our
labor goes and transforms
nature into into what we eat so
yes you must experiment and so on but
keeping in line the idea of advancing
the cause of humanity and maintaining a
balance with nature

狗撵摩托不懂科学
6天前
赞同他最后的发言，社会主义不是要消灭资本 让大家一起变穷。很多人特别是西方人认为社会主义就是要消灭资本和资本家，其实并不是。社会主义和资本主义的区别是 资本在其中扮演的角色，资本主义社会是整个社会为资本服务，资本掌控了真正的社会资源和权力。社会主义社会是要资本为社会服务，资本永远不能凌驾于社会之上。所以美国排名前十的资本家可以轻易左右白宫的决策，但是中国排名前十的资本家要左右中南海 就是找死

Jason Lee
5天前
给这个印度老哥点个赞。那个国家都不缺明白人，缺的只是发声的渠道。

Sophie Bao
6天前
It will be great if the subject title is also translated to English since the content is in English. 
VJ's talk was so captivating! It is so because he speaks passionately, truthfully, and confidently about the subject matters. To be able to talk like him needs extensive reading and studies and open-mindedness. We have many great scholars or domain experts as well but not many can talk like him, either short of passion or lack of confidence. I don't mean to speak in English. China is a great country that is doing great things. The Chinese need to come out telling their stories with great passion, conviction, and confidence. I not only hope the hosts and anchors of CGTN etc can speak like him but also select high-quality speakers to come to their show. I have learned several knowledge points from his talk. However, not many shows or talks provide such benefits to their audience.

Comrade Stannis ? CPUSA
3天前
Vijay Prashad is a treasure. I'm glad that he's having an honest conversation and discussion on Chinese television.
suger
6天前
这也是我为什么现在不买苹果的原因。。。就是中美两国的根本是利益之争。。。所以我现在尽量都只买国产。。。
M. Y.
3天前
I'm so EXCITED to have found this!  Definitely on the high level with Eric Li when discussing about China and on going frictions with the west.

Arch Mag
5天前
一个真正的社会主义者，一个有信仰的人。我希望他保护好自己，希望他平平安安，不要像那个在土耳其暴毙的俄裔美国记者那样被CIA暗杀.

Edward Hochwand
6天前
这是那位在格拉斯哥气候会议上喷西方殖民主义借气候问题延续压榨发展中国家的那位印度学者吧，一针见血也很风趣。

6天前
Vijay is spot on the point of Science and Technology and agree with him that this is what the West fears China most to be technologically more advanced than they are in areas where the West have been enjoying super profits for years.

Jacky Jackson
5天前
我同意他的大部分觀點。唯一我不 100% 同意的是他說中國文化沒有關係。也許沒有直接關係...但與大多數其他古代文化不同，中國文化強調勤奮、自強、堅韌、良好教育...還有你可以說很多關於儒家的壞話，但原始儒家是以人为本, 相當理性, 不太宗教化的, 相對於印度和埃及等其他古代文明，階級的隔離程度較低..... 因此現代化更容易

tony tan
4天前
Vijay is a true wonder, an independent,wise  thinker, despite the poisonous environment that was not condusive for  independent intelligent thinking in India

Ariel
5天前
这位学者的一个观点不敢苟同，就是有关文化的作用部分，整个儒家文化圈都有重视教育、世俗化和吃苦耐劳的精神内核，这对中国的崛起非常重要。至于他举的几个例子，只能是在工业革命以来具有先发优势的国家在国际政治中强势的结果，与文化重要性没直接关系。

马克施
5天前（修改过）
He is correct. Even in Singapore, if you observe carefully, Lee Kuan Yew when fighting against the British criticised the colonial master. Once he became rich and powerful, he turn into a colonial master himself. Colonialism did not die, it just use currency as a control instead of weapon thats all.

唐汉
5天前（修改过）
这是个少有的，很有思想的，睿智的，有着历史观的，而且敢于说真话的家伙。

C san
6天前
Learn a lot from him!  Many thanks!

Juan Jiang
5天前
哇，一个外国人会把中国国情讲解的这么透澈。

ting wang
5天前
I really enjoyed your speech Mr Vijay. Thanks for sharing your brilliant insights with us.

Wenke Adam
1小时前
Hi Vijay! I almost missed this video because the titles were only in Chinese. But the YouTube algorithm for once worked fine when I did a search for Vijay prashad. Lovely presentation. I agree with your views on how to create socialism. It is probably the biggest experiment that humankind has embarked on. Be supple, be flexible, but never underestimate the power of the capitalist class. Don't let them take the upper hand.

Francis Lee
4天前（修改过）
Yes China made a mistake of missing the Industrial Revolution, but no the Chinese Culture should not be totally dismissed in China's successful and outstanding revival.
It is Chinese Culture, amid the Japanese invasion and foreign powers' aggression/abuse/suppression, that holds China together still.
It is Chinese Culture that has made it possible for China, this civilization of 5,000 years, to revive to become world #2 economy from ground zero in a mere 40 years.
It is Chinese Culture that has enabled Chinese people to reject Democracy USA style, and to find her own way that is proven to be working extremely well for China.
It is Chinese Culture that has led Chinese people to choose a Government that controls Capital, not controlled by Capital.
It is Chinese Culture that has enabled China to be a large country (1.4B population) that is most successful in containing the Coronavirus.
And most importantly: because of the Chinese Culture, we thankfully see China becomes world power (again) PEACEFULLY without the waging of wars like USA.

Ruipeng Li
9天前
VJ！印度裔马克思列宁主义学者，反帝国主义斗士，曾经听过他的演讲，深深佩服。