Stat2006-03-31 16:53:18回复悄悄话
YuQing, KaungYe and WeiFei,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. I find it helpful to listen to what others have to say. Personally I gain more from reading the free style poems on the net than from reading LvShi or Ci. Some people think it is easy to compose free style. It is right to a certain point. But to compose good free style poems, it is very hard, harder than LvShi and Ci (at least to me). I would consider the soul of a poem is its rhythm (the content is another important integral part – the body or the flesh). I prefer to listen to the author reciting his poem than to read it (since the punctuation can make a big difference). Because LvShi and Ci have certain format, to follow the format is to guarantee it sounds reasonable. But an author might find it hard to express himself freely when limited by the format. That is the reason why some Ci or LvShi seem to be work of children playing Leggo. To WeiFei’s point, I do appreciate those poets who take social responsibility. And the 101 of taking social responsibility is to be real. I remembered KuangYe’s poem about the little Chinese girl. It moved me by the powerful emotion it delivered. “Back to the Winter” also left me with some impact. According to our own mood, sometimes we like one and other times we may like others. It is reasonable to assume that authors are good at different styles at different times, too.
I will be on the road for a while. Good luck in composing better poems!
Stat2006-03-29 17:13:51回复悄悄话
I actually wanted to say "Why would I ever sigh?" but missed the "I". Because of this, FeiJun might have mistaken what I meant.
I tried to express that I would not sigh over a seed of perpetual life.
I agree that our styles are yet to be established. We all start with copying the great work we like. Occasionally we will be inspired and come up with some original thought -- that is the moment that we enjoy and celebrate. I prefer your free style to others. I have also seen different styles in your free style poems.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. I find it helpful to listen to what others have to say. Personally I gain more from reading the free style poems on the net than from reading LvShi or Ci. Some people think it is easy to compose free style. It is right to a certain point. But to compose good free style poems, it is very hard, harder than LvShi and Ci (at least to me). I would consider the soul of a poem is its rhythm (the content is another important integral part – the body or the flesh). I prefer to listen to the author reciting his poem than to read it (since the punctuation can make a big difference). Because LvShi and Ci have certain format, to follow the format is to guarantee it sounds reasonable. But an author might find it hard to express himself freely when limited by the format. That is the reason why some Ci or LvShi seem to be work of children playing Leggo. To WeiFei’s point, I do appreciate those poets who take social responsibility. And the 101 of taking social responsibility is to be real. I remembered KuangYe’s poem about the little Chinese girl. It moved me by the powerful emotion it delivered. “Back to the Winter” also left me with some impact. According to our own mood, sometimes we like one and other times we may like others. It is reasonable to assume that authors are good at different styles at different times, too.
I will be on the road for a while. Good luck in composing better poems!
Sean
小女子真是厉害呀！＜断曲＞一贴立刻凸显在下的轻率。致歉先！想当日谴责文学城论坛管理，草草了事，今日，不过是便宜行事之人。惭愧。
再致歉！＜断曲＞印象太深刻，是雨清君悠悠作品中，较少呈现的风格。是误用，请见谅。
可是您难道也被误导？觉得这首作品有往下虚弱之感？这就是我一再想讨论的。
一个诗人，对自己的创作，到底！
有几分的了解？
所以我们是不是别在密码上头，猛解码了。我想讨论的是＜发想＞。密码也许是趣味的一环，也许是创作的源头。都不过包含在＜发想＞之中。
怎麽说呢！总观你们的讨论，只让我觉得，像是再讨论一件物品的＜包装＞！是应该用这方式？用那方式？用红色玻璃纸？还是绿色蝴蝶结？
各位诗人！文字艺术的创作者！你们想讨论的是这个麽？
当然！这种讨论形式并没有错，也无任何不妥。我想问的是∶专业职则在哪里？
诗人们对文字的责任在哪里？
一个写小说的，写散文的，或是媒体工作者。我们会称他为作家，为文字创作者。但是不会称作诗人。熟高熟低其实无仿，我想问的是∶诗人，你对自己的期许在哪里？你很清楚的问过自己麽？问过麽？
那种很清楚的，狠狠的问。
通常一般艺术创作者，在看到同好发表作品时。我要强调一下，是同好。不是人来人往的大众。他们会这样对话麽？［这里绿色应该重些］［这刀刻的太浅］［把木头摆在金属上面，重心会稳一点］芸芸等等。
这样的对话，终将落入情绪的巢臼，停滞在空洞之中。然！安然！无所谓妥与不妥。
先到这哩，再叙。
ＰＳ∶直来直往的问一句，若有电灯泡之嫌，请告知。非常人，但知趣。
ＰＳ２∶＜诗道喜裸评＞是新ＩＤ，贴近些！可我还想著我那＜非非君子＞那悲惨的名呀！被先注册走後，麻烦四起。怀念。
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雨清，你的诗歌也极具个性。关于“密码”，我还在琢磨，唯兄(他好像改ID了)最
好再来展开一下。
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旷兄好:)
对于您说的诗"有流动性(随意不确定), 又有潜在的定势. 流动性往往来自诗人的瞬间情感喷发, 是种不可控的元素, 可能诗人自己都对其说不明道不白." 有相似的体会. 这种流动性也可视为爆发性,其实就是一种强烈的灵感/刺激. 在那种状态下写出的文字, 往往一气呵成,但:某些部分作者自己也可能不明所以.若需要作者具体解释起来,也可能不大容易.
另一点, "而潜在定势可能就是由君子说的"密码"决定的. 既然是密码, 当然诗人不想或不愿让其给人轻易破解". 觉得新诗里常能看到这样的用法,尤其是话题比较特别的. 我在读您和舞曼M等诗友的新诗时,也遇上过很难解读意思的情况.终究"只能意会,不能言传".
发觉你们某些诗中的凝重和浓烈,特别张扬个性,且极具震撼力.真的需要好好学习.
其实古诗词中用"密码"(借唯兄语)的也不少. 觉得"密码"之用,与外在环境,内在私秘,中国人含蓄性格等等各种因素有关. 不过,个人认为,使用密码,应掌握适当的度,因为若使用过多过滥的话, 就真的太委屈读者的脑细胞了:))
很欣赏君子对诗的某些总体见解, 比如"对于诗的评论，不应该在于检讨是哪一句，
或是哪一个字。除非评者与作者有一定的熟息程度，知道作者的用词原委，甚至于
是用字的密码。" 就我个人很浅的自由体诗歌体验, 我觉得诗如液晶, 有流动性(随意不确定), 又有潜在的定势. 流动性往往来自诗人的瞬间情感喷发, 是种不可控的元素, 可能诗人自己都对其说不明道不白. 而潜在定势可能就是由君子说的"密码"决定的(密码这词用得好有创意, 我得好好想想). 既然是密码, 当然诗人不想或不愿让其给人轻易破解 . 所以, 自由诗(我对格律诗一窍不通)的这两种特性都让传统意义上的评诗变得很难.
我可能也分享STAT的一些感受, 怎么说呢, 就COPY他的一句话吧" I like the change since it is more upbeat (and more like me:) )", 希望STAT的评论给雨清的诗
带来更多的upbeat.
关于断曲, 前强后弱之势,其实也不是刻意的风格. 而是顺着情感而流淌的文字,甚至是血泪. 近乎一种"自刎":)所以到了最后部分,自是虚弱下去,但是,却也是最后一声最清晰最沉重的誓.
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断 曲 BY 雨清
冷.
一字, 一句,
冷得如你的决断,
纹丝不动.
我恨,
恨你的不懂.
我恨,
恨天的捉弄!
难道,
你还要,
再演一次,
来生的相逢?
狠心的人,
痛断丝弦,
一声绝望,
迸裂长空.
寒光,
蒙蔽前尘的爱宠;
无情的剑锋,
落在你的手中.
原来,
见了血,
桃花,
才有隔世的红.
What I meant was that I prefer your free style poems to other poems of yours. I was comparing among your poems.
I like the change since it is more upbeat (and more like me:) )
How do you like Chen2 Ai1?
BTW, the beginning of your post repeat after [七律]-诗书女儿. You should check it out.
不敢砸！听说你好哭！呵呵！我怕听到任何哭声。我儿子小的时候一哭，我就逃家。还好贱内哭的次数不多，否则就得休去！怕的是台湾一些字词的用法，与你们不太相近，常常会造成误解。不过在点点儿姑娘指导之下，诚略有长进。
实在说，不太情愿与Ｓ兄分享！！他敲的字，我看的痛苦的要死。不太公平。 ◑∧◐
这里所讨论的风格还是不够具体，下回应该举一列子才能有所依据。依稀记得您＜断曲＞的风格，前段铿锵有力，越到後头气势就弱了。只是依稀记忆。因为今天事忙，没空找去。下回再叙。
I tried to express that I would not sigh over a seed of perpetual life.
I agree that our styles are yet to be established. We all start with copying the great work we like. Occasionally we will be inspired and come up with some original thought -- that is the moment that we enjoy and celebrate. I prefer your free style to others. I have also seen different styles in your free style poems.
Thank you for your poem.
个人觉得对於诗的评论，不应该在於检讨是哪一句，或是哪一个字。除非评者与作者有一定的熟息程度，知道作者的用词原委，甚至於是用字的密码。否则都属多馀。我比较想要了解的是∶作者对於自己作品得观点，比方说是风格、架构、或是想脱离的巢臼。有一点像是说明，一路走来的心路历程一般。
创作古风格的诗持，因为有框架在，检讨用字才有一定的意义存在。几乎没有风格的问题。而创作新诗词则不然，风格的重要性似乎应该摆再第一位。但是当同一种模式反覆使用过後，就会像是招式用老一般。有突破自己、或是脱离巢臼的难处。
这是我想要讨论的重点，若是雨清君愿意阐述。我再挑出您的作品提问。
这贴！盼回覆。谢谢